Programmers And Drugs

The manager of my coworker's apartment complex asked my coworker "Why do all programmers do drugs?"

What do you think?

So there I am, wires tangled across my desk, on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon, mainlining gourmet junk food, beer, chocolate ice-cream & caffeine, thrashing on two keyboards literally like KeithMoon?, alternately giggly or bleaked out, no short-term memory to speak of (except for the code), alternately spiteful and aloof, grade-school-math-illiterate, taking frequent breaks [getting a ton of stuff done], and just my luck I drew a StonerBoss who hasn't read the medical reports explaining why I'm just always like that, even when (otherwise) cold sober, and thinks 'it takes one to know one'.

No, dude, I'm just _always_ like that. ~~PhlIp

Are you asking "Do all (or most) programmers use drugs?", or "We all know programmers do drugs. Why is that?"

I'm just opening the topic. I have observed a high proportion of drug-using programmers. They have ranged from Tequila-swiggers to users of drugs as holy sacraments. It does make some sense, though: We are tinkerers of systems. What system is more tinkerable than the one we walk around in?

The counter-argument from those who don't observe much drug use is that programmers value clear-headedness, and generally don't want to mess with it too much. My own belief (not backed up by any evidence) is that programmers aren't any more or less inclined to use drugs than other professions with well-educated well-paid people who are occasionally subjected to lots of stress. There is also probably an age difference - younger programmers are more likely to be non-prescription drug users than are older programmers.

Drugs are probably less common among the geeks that make up much of the programmers than among the "cool kids". But I can imagine some working conditions driving people from caffeine to speed.

Really? I don't personally know any programmers who don't use caffeine and sugar (and yes, people, these are drugs). -- MikeSmith

Yes, but with those kind of standards, everyone is a drug user and so the question becomes meaningless. To be meaningful, we need a narrower definition of what "doing drugs" means, and most people would use a definition that is limited to illicit substances and substances that have a more substantial effect than do caffeine, sugar, chocolate, garlic, aspirin, etc.

Please don't take this as a jocular question: What exactly is the difference between the drugs everyone does vs the others? You mention the substantialness of effect... but where can you draw the line, if that's your criterion?

OK, how about we restate the question as "In what ways does the drug usage of programmers differ from the norm?"

Yes, but with those kind of standards, everyone is a drug user and so the question becomes meaningless.

That's right. In my opinion, the question is meaningless. We are all (the vast majority of us, anyway) drug users. Some of us abuse drugs, but that distinction has nothing to do with which drugs are being used; merely whether the user retains control, rather than relinquishing it. -- MikeSmith

The New Hacker's Dictionary by EricRaymond claims that most hackers don't do drugs at all, or do so rarely. The programmers I know don't do drugs other than caffeine and the occasional sharing of a pitcher of beer, but my observations are obviously influenced by my choice of companions.

Many of ESR's observations there and in his other lexicographical works are nothing more than projection. Prime example: Aunt Tillie (deliberately not CamelCased) which is used by noone but himself.

The apartment manager's belief may be based upon the programmers' far-off stares, poor grooming, strange hours, weird spending habits, and inability to have a relaxed and friendly conversation, rather than any actual evidence of drug use.

Second the statement about programmer behavior being the source of the query. In the vernacular, "on drugs" can be a way of saying "acting weird". It shows up most often in the incredulous query, "are you on drugs?". From the apartment manager's view, programmer interests, vocabulary and "geeky" behavior is likely odd enough to invoke the "what are they smoking?" response. -- StevenNewton

In this case, the manager was referring to actual chemical use.

I know a few programmers who probably drink too much for their own good. The fact that most programmers have very varying productivity may help them to hide a few mornings of sobering up at work. Having their own offices and working in large out-of-control projects with much mindless grunt programming probably helps too.

I am shocked - by the opening statement of the page. I've never misused a controlled substance. To the best of my (very limited) knowledge, no programmer I've ever worked with did either. (It could very easily be that some did, and I was simply unaware of it.)

I worked with a salesman once, and was informed that he did cocaine. He was an idiot. (And I didn't need to be told of his habit to know that.)

Don't be stupid. Programming is an intense thinking creative activity. Drugs mess up your brain. I exercise and get plenty of sleep, to be "on top of the mental game" when I'm in it. I'd have to be crazy to do drugs.

Don't do drugs.

Life is hard enough as it is.

-- JeffGrigg

Jeff, when you are at 8,000 meters altitude in the South American Andes, and you feel like your brain is about to burst your skull from the low air pressure outside it, you will change your tune regarding whether "controlled" substances are sometimes good for you. ;-) -- PhlIp

That's outside the jurisdiction of the United States. ;-> -- jtg

Recreational coke is a drug that makes boring people think they are more interesting. There are other drugs that make bored people think the world is more interesting. I know a lot of programmers who use this second class of drug. I also know a lot of programmers who use alcohol and cannabis to come down from the high level of stimulation they experience while doing this "intense thinking creative activity". That might end up impairing their performance in the long run, or might not; who are you to prejudge either way? In my own experience (mainly in the UK), the most productive developers producing the highest quality code are often also the hardest drinkers. And hardest partiers in other ways, too. YMMV, of course.

By the way, you do know that vigorous exercise causes the body to release its own supply of heroin-like substances? That's one reason why some people like it so much ;-)

How many programmers do you know who actually get plenty of sleep and exercise, or otherwise take care of their bodies? In contrast, how many programmers do you know who work 18-hour stretches surviving on nothing but donuts and soda? With body care standards like some I've seen, I'm just happy crack hasn't gained popularity in programming. Yet.

"Don't be stupid. Programming is an intense thinking creative activity. Drugs mess up your brain. I exercise and get plenty of sleep, to be "on top of the mental game" when I'm in it. I'd have to be crazy to do drugs." - marijuana is good for you

Being so smart and all, will programmers lead the transition away from smoking to VaporizeCannabis??

Well, it has been observed that there has been a marked decline in program quality since the introduction of urine testing as an employment requirement... - JayOsako, puckish to the last

In my relatively short work experience, I've met both end of the spectrum in programmers. There is a (reasonably large) group that induces in hard drugs like alcohol (binging), nicotine and may have experimented with coke or heroine. The reasonable ones do marijuana and moderate alcohol drinking, caffeine use as well as chocolate consumption. On the other end, you have quite a few total abstinents. A lot of programmers seem to be ControlFreaks?, but the result is not necessarly similar in terms of their drug use.

I've also worked with people from both ends of the spectrum. The drinkers/smokers/druggies tend to be much easier to get along with, and that makes them better for team projects. The non-* variety tend to produce better code, but having a conversation with them can be a very delicate procedure. -- MichaelSparks

Basically, we are divided in two groups: the ones who do drugs, and the ones who don't code. I am yet to meet the latter. It's pretty much a fact that most hackers do drugs, it would be too tempting not to.

Of course, there is a small chance I might have just had the luck of living on the darker side of the spectrum. But chances are those who advocate abstinence either somehow did not know their 20-hour straight brilliant peers were on something not quite as black as coffee - and that would make perfectly sense, given the are you on drugs? nature - or are merely nodding at the TechsWhoDoDrugsSecretSociety?, thereby stating - There are two possible explanations for this. Either no one told me, or no one knows.

Geeks may be known as ControlFreaks?, but are seldom drug-addicts. It's more like overclocking caffeine. And really, mates, few things get one "on top of the mental game" like that. Unlike salesmen on coke, you're unlikely to find devs bringing attention to themselves on this matter or acting foolishly. More than the usual "are you on drugs?", that is.

You'd think our fellow mates would be smarter than knowingly messing up their own brain, right?

That being said, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

--LeoBighetti?

Then I must be unusual. I GaveUpOnCaffeine. I don't seem to need it to keep concentration up for hours without any drugs. I may be autistic though, but then 'highly-functioning', as I haven't experienced the usual disadvantages. -- GunnarZarncke

I have been programming commercial software professionally for 15 years and at various times during that period, I have smoked pot. If I luck into a bag, I'll smoke it most every day until it is gone. But, I don't smoke and work at the same time. I have consistently been the highest paid (as in "most well paid") programmer in the few companies for which I have worked (4 in 15 years, I can keep a job). I smoke it at night after I am done working or during the weekend. However, I often THINK about problems at work when I am high and I have found that I can often come up with some pretty creative solutions to problems that way. I don't do that when I HAVE to work. I just often think about work when I don't have to. I am not young anymore but I am a better programmer today that I ever had been. My point is that some people are in control of their lives and CHOOSE to RESPONSIBLY use drugs. They are able to control when, where and why they choose to give up that control and have fun. Lastly, I don't think I am unique in this way. It is a myth of the anti-drug zealots that drug use cannot be done responsibly. What I do is no different than having a few beers at home when I have some free time. How many of us do you think can do that? The answer is a lot can and do. Oh yes, one more thing, I am high right now. High does not mean incoherent. -- John

20 GOTO *

I agree with John. I'm a software engineer and I also toke responsibly. I find that the reefer makes me think differently, and as a result I can devise innovative solutions to tricky problems. I never go to work high, I just smoke in the evening. -- DrederickTatum?

An anecdote, or data however you look at it - a friend of mine worked at Sun in its glory days. She said that if Sun actually implemented its "no drugs policy", about 60% of the developers would be fired, 40% of its salesforce, and about 30% of management.

From my perspective, some types of drug use (like psychedelics) go hand in hand with the mentality of programmers (I also have a B.S. in psychology). "The mind" is more central to the typical programmer, versus "the body", so hacking your mind (if you're inclined) is a logical activity to engage in. Ignoring society's "rules" (or rules in general) also appeals to the typical mentality of a "hacker". If we obeyed all the "it can't be done" dictates, then humanity would still be living in caves, eating raw meat - the guy that harnessed fire was an engineer!

As for other types of drugs (you can NOT lump them all into one category and say that which applies to heroin also applies for alcohol or weed), there are many motivations why someone would "do drugs" - stress relief, entertainment, escape from psychological pain... Alteration of one's psychological state seems to be a primary psychological drive, even seen in animals (though the motivations for it may be complex). Anyone who thinks there are simple or even one explanation why people "do drugs" is a simpleton and their opinion should be ignored. -- Doug

Signs programmers are on drugs (starting with caffeine;):

They really want to use BrainFsck.
They actually like Perl :-)
"GO TO 666" found in their code.
"CAME FROM 666" found in code
"GO TO integer(Random() * 10000);" found in code.
They converted all loops in 20 apps into recursion "for the hell of it"
"pink_bunny.delete();" and "room.spinRate=0.0;" repeatedly found in code.
Variables with names like, "Duuude", "Knarrrly", "Wooooo", "Yeaaaaah", "GoGoGoGo?", "AckAckAck?", found in code.

This page just confirms something easy to predict: some programmers do drugs, some don't. And some advocate their stance, some don't. Would it be more useful a list of DrugEffectsOnProgrammers? (or along those lines)?

I am a very sober individual. I never use drugs recreationally. However, I do take prescription medication. Some argue that the programmers they know don't use drugs. Have the ones who would argue that position considered that some of these programmers may not use drugs recreationally but may still take prescription medication? -- StevenStewartGallus?

"Do drugs" means recreational drug use. See http://www.thefreedictionary.com/do+drugs.

Yes of course, I am aware of that definition. My whole point was that we were limiting our discussion to recreational drug use when the topic of prescription medicine is very appropriate to the question of why many programmers take drugs. For example, one could hypothesize "what if many programmers take drugs (prescription or otherwise) because they are mentally ill?" Or perhaps one might argue "programmers are often put under a high amount of stress and so many try to self-medicate and some others take legal prescription medicine." -- StevenStewartGallus?