Wiki Whining

If we don't want to delete this page, how can we make it distinct from the stuff on WikiMission?

I deleted it because of WikiMission, but it was undeleted. I don't think it is helping to have such a bitter, condescending page around either. -- SunirShah

I undeleted it because I saw some value in it. I felt it didn't deserve a wholesale deletion. The whine about spelling, grammar and punctuation is a shameless whine, but it is legitimate point ("Your careful attention to detail is much appreciated." is probably the other end of the spectrum of civility). Also, the JohnPassaniti quote about being able to scan RecentChanges for topics of interest hasn't been expressed that way (that I've seen, granted I've only been here a year). If you want to delete it again, feel free. I'd rather keep some whining around. -- SeanOleary

I don't mind having whining here, but whining about what? Just having a page that is "things we don't like about this wiki" seems too vague to me. -- FrancisHwang

Here are two approaches to bitterness: hear it, or suppress it. We all feel tempted to suppress expressions of bitterness about things we like, hoping that by preventing it from being heard, the people who feel it will stop feeling it, or at least shut up. But we all know what really happens. Most people have less experience with what happens when bitterness is heard without judgement, censorship, or argument. The option to hear seems unthinkable, like opening Pandora's box. -- BenKovitz

I have no problem with whining - Lord knows I've done quite bit of it myself, here and otherwise. I just have a problem with a page called WikiWhining. Whining about what? It would be just as useful to create a page called ThingsPeopleDontLike?. -- francis

A page for people to complain about the direction Wiki is taking.

(And somewhere for people to put Whines that are breaking up a page.)

You can vent here.

ShamelessWhinge?: Not even reaching a primary school standard of spelling, grammar, and punctuation shows very little respect for your collaborators or Wiki itself. Everybody makes occasional mistakes, but please at least try to pay attention.

Some people have learning disabilities (e.g. dyslexia), in which case it's not fair to criticize.

Instead of complaining, fix it and make the wiki better for everyone.

from ProgrammingValueSystem

So as WardsWiki rapidly morphs into PhiloWiki? and disappears up its own fundament, a bunch of software enthusiasts can only stand and stare. Some of you guys have either got too much time on your hands or a very big axe to grind.

I thought we were discussing software development, or do you require us to discuss code to qualify?

I have this ability that seems to be rare. I can look at RecentChanges and tell that a page titled ChristianPresuppositions likely doesn't have much to do with bringing up Linux on an embedded system, finding problems in hierarchical visitor patterns, or discussing why Java sucks. Others apparently lack this ability.

If Ward states unambiguously that Wiki is only about topics related to software, then I and everyone else will restrict ourselves to just those topics, and possibly choose some other Wiki for discussions. But I haven't yet seen that.

Personally, I enjoy these supposedly off-topic exchanges. It has helped me to sharpen my writing and thinking (which likely has an small, indirect effect on my software). But more importantly, it makes the overall experience here richer and more human. If Wiki was just about software, some of the wonderful connections people form between seemingly unrelated topics would be lost. Wiki would turn into a textbook written with an anonymous, corporate tone. Such a Wiki might be useful as a cure for insomnia.

Hopefully we can all find a balance here.

-- JohnPassaniti

John's got a great point on wiki's human aspect. When I started lurking on Wiki long before I had the gall to first hit EditText (some may rue that day...), I found not just bland treatises on naming conventions (though those exist too), but a densely interconnected web that helped to expose the culture of the people who think about and use those naming conventions. (Yes, wiki is about far more than naming conventions.)

As wiki grows, it will grow in many directions. However, those directions are 99% of the time either related somehow by branching off of existing topics, or they will become related over time as people contributing link back to existing topics.

I think in the future, wiki will stand as possibly one of the greatest historical works the world has known to this date. That won't be because it's got some good discussion on ExtremeProgramming, WindowsVsLinux, or even TheVisitation - but it will be because it shows how they all interrelate and teaches its readers more than they could otherwise ever hope to know about the people who care about these things.

I wish more of the world was wiki.

-Yeah. Then we could just edit or delete annoying zealots who coo over wiki as though it's anything more than a (very) mildly interesting sideshow.

-- MattBehrens (who is puzzling over the content of WikiWhining vs WikiPraise? on this particular page)

I agree 100% with John here, I'm not a MasterProgrammer, but I enjoy Wiki very much, both for the very interesting information regarding programming, which may help me (and I'm trying ; ) but also because of the supposedly OffTopic pages, which help to enrich the whole experience. These pages are like chapters in a book which give rest from the intensity of the rest of the book, thus emphasizing the 'real' subject matter. I hope that WikiStaysLikeThis?. -- MatthewTheobalds

WikiWhining was created as somewhere to refactor a whine about the legitimacy of a subject to. Wiki works best (or at least as it was originally intended) with a posting, a thread mode frenzy, and then a refactoring into a summary (with the thread underneath). A comment about the the validity of the subject stuck right in the middle of a discussion doesn't help anyone.