Unified Recent Changes

The one crucial step that would unite all WikiDom: C2 RecentChanges would include and link to changes to pages on SisterSite wikis.

Do we want to unite all WikiDom? Part of the reason for starting a new SisterSite is that it allows the participants to filter on topics that interest them.

Wikiers use RecentChanges a lot. Most of us are interested in pages that are "moving", pages with fresh contents. Those who are interested in specific topics will search in titles or in the body of pages for there will also be a unified search by titles and a unified search in the body of pages. As a matter of fact the unified search in page titles already exists thanks to SunirShah. See UnificationOfAllWikisInFourSteps?.

It's a matter of scale. It is possible to pay attention to recent changes on Wiki because in a few hours the number of changes is not so large as to disallow a quick scan. Adding another wiki to the mix wouldn't cause too much harm, but after the nth wiki the list would be too bloated.

Also consider the fact that there's the perennial wish some people have to filter a single Wiki's recent changes. (A Wiki example is the 'why can't we filter out CategoryHomePage' wish that comes up from time to time.) Related to this is all the pissing and moaning from people who don't care about wikiA and don't see why it should be shown on changes. And the counter pissing and moaning from those who love wikiA. And the sideline pissing and moaning from those who don't really care about wikiA but construe not including it on RecentChanges as an attack on the first amendment or something.

Now, a different kind of unified Recent Changes list that works more like a new clipping service sidesteps these issues, but the effort to implement that is far greater than the effort it takes to bookmark the relevant page for each wiki a person may be interested in following. -- JoeWeaver

Y'all might be interested in an essay I'm putting together, the "Connecting Wiki" essay.

The basic idea is that we need technologies for cliques to operate over multiple wiki while still retaining cohesion.

I'm also working on an InterWiki wiki, for organizing and aligning InterWiki projects. I'd like everyone who is interested in getting InterWiki off the ground to help. There've already been several successful projects that help get us there. Inter-Wiki links, XmlRpcInterface?, etc., etc.,. But there are very few technologies that warp RecentChanges. That's the most important thing.

InterWiki wiki: http://interwiki.wiki.taoriver.net/

Connecting Wiki Essay: http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/ConnectingWikiEssay

-- LionKimbro

One bad idea that is made unnecessary by AggregationOnTheClient.

Why it is bad ? Because it's not necessary. RSS and ATOM clients (among which MozillaThunderbird) makes it quite easy for people to follow up on several wikis (enough rope to shoot yourself in the foot, if you ask me).

Still, even if unnecessary it wouldn't be a bad idea if it didn't suffer from obvious problems. Wikis are public spaces. History tells us that on-line public spaces need to stay focused and avoid cross-contamination in order to be useful . Example of quality on-line forums are comp.programming.threads, comp.lang.functional, comp.language.scheme, LambdaTheUltimate , etc. What they have in common is that no one would expect say a political or religious post be welcomed in the public space of a forum dedicated to one area of programming. They all stay focused on the topic they chose. Cross-posting are seldom encouraged and most of the time end up in flames.

The reason is simple and obvious: SeparationOfConcerns. If one wants to preach atheism on Usenet he should post on alt.atheism or whatever the address is and not on comp.lang.functional. If somebody wants to follow atheism and functional programming he subscribe his newsreader client to alt.atheism and comp.lang.functional, there's no need for the server to offer a unified newsgroup for everything under the sun (which would be the equivalent of uniting all WikiDom). And if all wikidom is united why not unite more ? Why not UnifiedRecentChanges on all wikidom + usenet + blogs ? Nevermind, just the explosion of topical wikis makes UnfiedRecentChanges? practically unfeasible.

A UnifiedRecentChanges of everything under the sun would be both onerous on the server (ok, maybe Google could do it) and totally useless for users because of the amount of noise for each particular user. To make it useful, an user would have to either opt-in or opt-out which still would technically mean AggregationOnTheClient. If the selection is done instead on the server, then the problem becomes political. Say Ward replaces RecentChanges with a carefully selected UnifiedRecentChanges. But then selection becomes endorsement. Should c2 -- which is largely a collective effort endorse an atheism wiki ? Not so long ago a wannabe wanted to use c2 for atheist propaganda. Ok, maybe an atheism wiki is off the charts. How about an Orthodox Christianity Wiki ? How about a Microsoft Technologies Wiki versus a Linux Wiki ?

The tried and true solution is to avoid the problem altogether. Let every individual person choose what he/she should follow individually, while keeping public spaces focused, nice and clean. Like comp.programming.threads, comp.lang.functional, comp.lang.scheme, comp.database.theory, LambdaTheUltimate ,etc. --CostinCozianu

I think InterWiki is a much bigger project than just establishing search engines across them all, or unifying recent changes. There's a lot of work to do. It will take some time. Fortunately, it's already happening; We're already seeing people hop lots of wiki. But the future is far more amazing.

Right now, I'm working on establishing [http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/community/PersonalLogServer personal log servers,] so that communities can keep in touch with each other while they operate over multiple wiki. I've already written a UnifiedRecentChanges macro for MoinMoin; You can see a demonstration at http://wikifeatures.wiki.taoriver.net/moin.cgi/WikiSandBox. (It's a little slow; I need to optimize it.)

I'd rename this page to UniversalRecentChanges? (unifying the RC of ALL wiki), because people are already using the term UnifiedRecentChanges to designate collating RecentChanges from N wiki, where N>0, but generally significantly less than all wiki.

-- LionKimbro

One idea that has been presented is the creation of a RecentChanges page which would show recent changes on a network of Wiki sites. In effect this page would list whatever is "on the mind" of a GlobalBrain comprised of multiple interacting Wikis.

I think RecentChanges is for changes to this Wiki server. Pointers to change logs of other Wiki servers should be on the Wiki page for that server. Or, if you want to form a GlobalBrain, then a page like that, or WikiWikiClone, would be a good place for such links. -- JeffGrigg

See RecentChangesOnOtherWikiForums - that seems to be the place for that kind of stuff. It is mentioned at the top of our RecentChanges. I don't think we need any more. (I am a big fan of the MeatBall concept but it bothers me to have so many cross-references from here to there - or indeed, to other foreign sites.) -- DaveHarris

See also: ChangeAggregator, InterWikiSearchEngines?, InterWikiSearchEnginesDiscussion? RecentChangesOnOtherWikiForums SocialInternet

CategoryWiki