What Isa Community

WhatIsaCommunity was started at MeatBall, a site primarily concerned with "online community", and it is a must read.

I created this page to stimulate discussion on CtwoBusinessValue, a page created later.

And elsewhere (in another wiki), I have started pages called CommunityAndCulture?, and I will bring it back to this wiki when more experienced person(s) than myself have had a go at it. Sadly not yet

-- DavidLiu (signature will be removed again later)

So WhatsaCommunity? And what is a WikiCommunity?

When answered, we can move on to CommunityBuilding, which is more challenging than TeamBuilding?, and more rewarding, I hope.

Thoughts of the person who started the page

On WikiReaders

I do not think long-term readers of this site are members of the community. These people are definitely helpful to the cause of wikis, but I think it takes a bit more sweat before one becomes a member of the real community. Having said this, I think it is useful to step back, and think about the merits of CtwoBusinessValue, from the perspective of readers that are non contributors.

On most valued community members

These are quiet achievers. They perform "non-controversial chores" as a matter of course. They are often recognized by other members of the community, but typically would escape notice of people who do not have vested interest in the health of the wiki.

We do not have enough of them because lots of people GaveUpOnGardening (see sister page).

On WhenToDeletePages

A member of the community is often visible, and I would suggest when they go about deleting unwanted material they identify themselves. This is because queries on their actions might be raised and actions might have to be changed, deferred, etc.

I often think people who delete nonspam material without identifying themselves do more harm than good.

That didn't happen in the case of FloridaWaterMgmtDistrict?.
And on that matter, I disagree with WikiMindWipe as well. Especially in pages with "unfinished" involvement by multiple parties.
People do mind wipes when they're upset. Opinion is split on whether someone should mind wipe their own material if they feel like it (although most seem to feel that it is unfortunate but usually a wish to be respected), and there is universal agreement that no-one should mind wipe other people's material, but your disagreement on the matter predictably won't sway an upset person in any case.
For example, in the case of FloridWateMgmtDistrict?, if the person who created the page deletes it right away, it deprives others to look at the history of the discussions. We need progress progress towards building a community based mechanism for deciding on "doubtful pages". Recent real life examples, with all its emotions and mishaps, serve the educative purposes better than contrived cases. -- DavidLiu
- But to whom are you addressing this comment, "if the person who created the page deletes it right away"? The author and most recent deleter of FloridWateMgmtDistrict? obviously isn't going to see your comment here on this page - if you want to ask him not to delete pages too rapidly, it would be more logical to make that request to him on his home page (restored by WikiGnome after deletion by author). (If you also intended to make a comment about deletion by non-authors, I already replied on my homepage.) -- Doug

On EgolessWiki

More to come. Sorry could be a long wait but intention is there.

A different viewpoint

Probably championed by CC. If he claims ownership to this part of the contribution we have a better understanding of the value system behind the statements made. -- dl

Useless and endless talks about deletion are predicated on the idea that wiki stuff has some inherent value that needs to be defended, and when somebody deletes irrelevant stuff like XXXWhatever a grave offense is committed. This is complete and utter nonsense. More stuff does not equal more value. On the contrary, in a place like wiki, the odds are exceedingly high that:

  more stuff => less value

Oh, and there's also the ever delusional ego that thinks along the lines "I know it doesn't look great right now but I can always come back later and finish the masterpiece". Experience proves that it never happens. And let's not forget, a great deal of contributors think and act as if wiki was built to support the fundamental transaction:

  (waste of time)  <-> (titillated ego)

Nobody deletes great stuff that was written on this wiki, nobody deletes even mildly decent stuff. So in most cases whining about stuff getting deleted is irrelevant. An open community cannot be built around the goal to titillate egos. -- CostinCozianu HadTheLastWord?

"An open community cannot be built around the goal to titillate egos." - ?Responding to? "I often think people who delete nonspam material without identifying themselves do more harm than good" statement earlier?

It was in response to the general situation, the topic of this page being WhatIsaCommunity. A great deal of wiki actors follow the fundamental transaction that I described above, then they and others wonder what happens with the community (or lack thereof). If it weren't for that we wouldn't even be chatting about FloridWaterMgmtDistrict?, and other such nonsense. -- CostinCozianu

thanks Costin for the clarification. I like the last statement you made in the above paragraph and therefore moved it to the top of section and made it bold. But I respect your desire to have it as the last sentence. -- dl DeleteWhenRead