Is Globalism Threatening Tech Careers

There is a lot of chatter lately about BrainsAsaCheapCommodity and that Information Technology (IT) jobs are moving overseas and/or into the hands of non-immigrant visa workers. It is hard to compete with somebody who does essentially the same work but earns about 1/8 the wages due to a lower cost of living in their native country.

Even jobs that require close face-to-face interaction may be affected also as those who did other types of IT work try to move into the face-to-face corner also, crowding the last remaining corner of a sinking ship.

AmericanCulturalAssumption applies. For many people (and some wiki readers) this is surely a Great Thing!

It affects the entire "developed" world (for lack of a better word), not just the US. Perhaps it affects the US more, but not exclusively. It is a DevelopedWorldCulturalAssumption?.

And it's affecting many, many more programmers in a very positive way in other parts of the world.

Outsourcing may be a positive thing for individuals in other parts of the world in the short term, but I am not so sure in the long term how such schemes will work. Rather than developing healthy local industry, outsourcing seems to develop short term gain that is not necessarily permanent. What seems to be occurring is no better than creating sneaker manufacturing plants in the Third World. Granted, the work is better than manufacturing Nikes, but exploiting other people and nations is something that American companies are getting remarkably proficient at.

I don't think giving people in developing countries the opportunity to work with their minds is "exploitation". I feel strongly that Americans whine about trivia while the rest of the world is hungry and desperate. I believe that the American way of life will fall in the face of our expertise and motivation. And don't forget you owe us a lot of money ... Really? Why?

I think the point is that places like India should not grow too dependent on outsourcing the same way economists recommend not growing too dependent on exports. They should build up their own economy. Depending heavily on exports, etc. creates more risk than having a thriving local economy and local demand.

We take your jobs. We make our own jobs for each other. We do it all cheaper than you think you can. One day, if you're lucky, we might employ you. But you're going to have to do a lot more work for a lot less money if you're going to compete with us then. Or stick to the kind of work that needs a security clearance.

U.S. and other "first world" programmers do work for a lot less money. It's just that it takes so much more to live in places like the U.S., Japan, and Europe. Compared to local cost of living, I would be surprised if U.S. programmers are paid much more than equally qualified programmers in India or Vietnam. The difference isn't that "we" (U.S. programmers) expect so much, it's that land and other non-imported necessities cost so darn much here. The wages of a qualified, experienced programmer seem to be the same the world over: a middle-class house, transportation appropriate to the local area, and enough money left over to support a small family. In the States that might be around $60,000 a year or so. In India it may be closer to $15,000 a year. "It's the economy, stupid." (indented text to indicate a different speaker, not a block quote)

Could programmers' yearly wages in India be that much considering that in Poland they are around $12,000? (Well, maybe even less, since the trend now seems to be to replace experienced programmers with students, who sometimes work for less than half of that.) If that's so, Poland's economy is in a far worse state than Poles think.

[Much of the excessive cost of living in America is caused by high local tax rates. Perhaps the cost of living disparity will force tax rates down in the US. This is probably good thing.]

Second, the U.S. does not owe the whole world jobs. What do you think Indian citizens would do and think if say Ethiopia became the new center of low-cost I.T., and Indians lost jobs? To Ethiopian's, Indians may look "wealthy" in comparison.

You don't owe us jobs. You owe us money. Some time in the next decade your economy will collapse and then we will be able to seize the upper hand. Maybe America will try to start a war to try to cancel their debt?

Sounds like a GrandConspiracy.

Ha! It's starting to sound that way..

It seems like Americans don't believe in history. The American empire is not a 1000 year reich, and is not immune to failure.

Well, if the US collapses and becomes like India, at least software people will have jobs again.

Don't bet on it.

Which one? US collapse or 3rd-world US techies getting jobs from the new 1st-world?

I see no particular reason why American CommodityProgrammers should be any more immune to technology impact than textile workers, bank tellers, or steel workers. Advances in genetic algorithms, search heuristics, and even open-sourcing suggest to me that conventional manual programming - telling the machine, step-by-step, what to do - will very soon be as obsolete as having a human decide where each resistor should go in a piece of hardware. I think outsourcing will be a positive thing for some individuals - regardless of nationality - because it must inevitably focus attention on what should the API, interface, and performance requirements be. A new generation of tools will be created that help answer those questions, and a new generation of information workers will use those tools. I think every programmer today - especially young people beginning their careers - should be tightly focused on becoming proficient at answering those kinds of questions. We don't, or shouldn't, have time to argue about what programming language we like best. We should, instead, be busy working out (in whatever lexical or graphical "language" works best) what components (specified as above) are required by the problem at hand.

This is also assuming that the move of textile workers or steel workers has been a GoodThing for all involved. Programming, naturally will evolve beyond the commodity stage, but not in this manner. Outsourcing to foreign companies is not about advancing the science or the art, it's about cutting costs. Period. The same thing happened to the American textile and steel (and other) industries, but the "state of the art" has not been pushed in those industries. Now, instead of union-backed well-paid (if they ever were) workers in the United States doing work, you have Third World workers doing the same dangerous work for far less money and the lack of worker protection that was enjoyed by our counterparts.

I would observe that "the move of textile workers or steel workers" was an important driver in funding jobs for programmers over the last 2-3 decades. Some people get hurt. Some people benefit. I find it self-serving that we programmers, who have been well-paid to create the very technology that allows the displacement of manual workers, bemoan the engine that now displaces us. It isn't that your observations aren't true - it is that the world has not yet discovered an economic alternative that works better.

Now, programming is slightly different work, without the inherent dangers, but the impact to Third World economies is the same. An American company sourcing work to India has no real tie to India; as soon as another country produces similar skills cheaper, the American money will go, as well. It may be good in the short term, but it creates economic instability and cycles of dependence on the American economy.

Ah yes, skilling ourselves up in modern technology is going to hurt our economies. What were we thinking? We should go back to those unskilled jobs we're so good at and let you big smart nordamericanos keep our systems going for us. That way we won't be dependent on you ... bwahahahahaha!!!!

No, you should be actively developing companies, businesses and industries that will actually let you keep the profits you generate, instead of being dependent on the scraps from the table.You may enjoy the short term gain that the multinationals bring, but your children will not see an easing in the quality of life because of it.

In addition, there is the impact on our own economy; even CommodityProgrammers may turn into a dying breed, but the slightly higher salary that lead people into the profession also lead to these same people having the means to buy houses, cars, goods, etc. and also contributing to a higher tax bracket. Those now facing "outsourcing" are not spending the BushTaxCut? on those same goods, they're saving it for unemployment. I know a number of people who have come into programming and IT work later in life that are now able to afford things they weren't before. These are the people that are now facing having their jobs being "outsourced".

All you need to get good skills these days is a low-speed Internet connection. All the tools and information are free online. Many American programmers think they've got skills, but I believe they're no match for a team of 12 Indians all coding to keep their families off the streets.

Here's an example: I work in an "Internet" group in a larger company that still has COBOL created legacy systems that have at least 20 years of specific development put into them. The company is not proposing to replace the system with a new "Java based" software product (too much development cost), but will rather maintain and enhance the current green-screen system for years into the future. The people that did this "maintenance work" were perfectly happy doing so, as this was one of the higher paying jobs that they have held. I wouldn't consider them to be GrandMasterProgrammers, but they did the work that needed to be done so the business (call center) could continue.

These jobs have been announced as being "contracted" to a company in India, and all maintenance and enhancement of the current systems will be done overseas. While my job is not threatened, per se, one must take note that somewhere, someone considers you to be a "commodity" as well. (See GrandMasterProgrammer)

While I bemoan the loss of jobs, what makes this much, much worse is the fact that this system is one that holds confidential information about the data inside it. All companies involved in finance/insurance/health care have had to deal with federal privacy regulations called HIPAA, which requires audits, and penalties for "sloppy" handling of confidential information. Here's the issue: the company must deal with HIPAA regulations, but only has cursory oversight over the subcontractor. In the case of an individual protecting his or her privacy rights, the legal case becomes much more complicated, if any errors can be legally proven at all.

Outsourcing needs to be thought of in two contexts; both in terms of "programmer jobs", the second as "public policy". While in our own world, "losing our jobs" seems avoidable, the larger context of public policy is of far greater consequence. --AnonymousByChoice?

The flip-side is that bribes go further in cheap-labor-land. If you want to buy black-market medical records, then you may be able to pay an Indian $5,000, while it may cost $50,000 in the US.

Those of us who lived in Pittsburgh in the early 80's or in the Northeast before that have heard all these arguments before. We caused drastic changes in the "service" sector by creating automated information systems that replaced people with call-centers - and then websites. We replaced bank tellers with ATMs. We gladly buy apparel and toys made by oppressed and exploited workers, because they're there. A huge number - maybe a majority - have been voting in favor of union-busters and against labor for decades, while we ignore and scorn the cries of the workers being displaced. Now, when it's ourselves and our friends getting the axe -- now it's suddenly terrible and threatening. I'm sorry, guys, but that's the way this world works. Some people lose, some people gain. I think the best we can do is try and be compassionate for those who lose while doing everything possible to be among those who gain. Maybe someday someone will find a better economic approach and solve some of these problems. I'm not holding my breath, though. -- TomStambaugh

The disappearing factory work had the assumption behind it that were plenty of other opportunities. One could get training as a plumber, electrician, auto mechanic, etc. However, if globalism is now selling BrainsAsaCheapCommodity, there is no "next" or "alternative" area that has comparable pay. The Next Big Thing is late this time, and may never show up on our shores. Further, it generally takes longer and is more expensive to move from one white-collar profession to another. At least the government funds factory worker and early-90's aerospace retraining. It has thumbed its nose at programmers, often using bad statatics to claim there is no problem. (I may have stated similar opinions in a similar topic, but I could not refind it.) The quantity and variety of altnernatives seems to be shrinking in comparison to the past. Thus, the reasons to ignore the loss of factory work are fading.

It's temporary; an aftershock of the bubble bursting, where the job-seeker supply is overly high after job-giver demand was artificially inflated and then suddenly deflated. The CommodityProgrammers are all out of work and willing to compromise on wages just to get anything. The perception becomes that programming really is a commodity service. Thus, the search for the cheapest source of the commodity. But it can't last because this perception is false. Two things will cause the perception to reverse: CommodityProgrammers won't be able to survive on the measly wages and will quit programming for some other commodity-type work; hiring managers will realize that CommodityProgrammers are not the same as GrandMasterProgrammers and will begin selectively hiring based on expertise once again. Current hiring practices are based on commodity buzzwords on a resume, instead of actual expertise.

Many managers and beurocrats have been dense for thousands of years. What would change that now?

This is all fueled by MooresLaw, which continuously obsoletes old expertise, and the fact that programming itself causes programming to remain a highly un-automatable profession (if it could be automated, we would (and do), and what's left would be the hard problems which can't be automated right now).

What do you think keeps an Indian, a Russian, or a Chinese from becoming a GrandMasterProgrammer? I believe we're already GrandMasterProgrammers, and can program rings around most Americans.

I have worked with various Indian and middle-eastern programmers. There were some good and some bad, just like anybody else. The variety in people seems to be a bigger factor than birth-place. The best developers tend to go into programming because they like it, not because of money. Although, those who go in it for money tend to have better people and diplomacy skills it seems.

What do you think keeps an Indian, a Russian, or a Chinese from becoming a GrandMasterProgrammer?

I don't think that there is anything stopping anyone from being a GrandMasterProgrammer, and that's missing the point anyway. The point is that there are such people as GrandMasterProgrammers, and programming is not a commodity service. Once this fact becomes more clearly understood, there will be less and less rush to look for the cheapest programmers, and more and more emphasis on finding the most skilled programmers. I don't believe that the Western hemisphere has a lock on skilled programmers, but the supply of skilled programmers is much lower than the supply of generic 'commodity' programmers. Lower supply means higher cost.

Suppose only 1-in-10 programmers were GrandMasterProgrammer's. If a global market is ten times bigger than the local market, then it would be possible to replace every average local programmer with a grand-master, and still pay less. In rough essence, you could replace every Masters holder with a Phd and still pay Masters prices.

Articles

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/internet/07/30/jobs.oversees.reut/index.html

http://outsourcing.weblog.gartner.com/weblog/index.php?blogid=9

http://www.reason.com/links/links073003.shtml

http://www.gonewiththeworld.com

[EditHint: combine Links with Articles section perhaps]

It seems to me that "Globalism" is simply the next step towards eliminating careers in "commodity programming" altogether because of automated code generation. It also seems to me that we in this Wiki community - with our familiarity with ExtremeProgramming - might view this as career-enhancing, rather than threatening.

As the cost of commodity programming goes down, and the availability of (possibly automated) commodity programmers goes up, the focus of "the problem" will shift from how the computation is done to what the computation does. It also seems to me that this is the fundamental paradigm shift required by the extreme/agile methodologies.

I see no shortage of programming problems anywhere in sight - if anything, the problems are getting harder rather than easier. The continued growth in processing power, storage capacity, and communication suggests to me that expectations will continue to grow for the forseeable future.

Right now there seems to be a backlash against I.T. dependence. Owners do not feel that IT is producing sufficient value. Whether this is true or not is another large debate, for it is hard to measure.

I suggest that the resource that will be increasingly valuable (in a supply/demand context) is the ability to analyze a problem and specify its solution in the form of concrete, measurable descriptions of behavior.

I therefore suggest that we continue to embrace the promise of what we might do with these extraordinarily powerful machines if the programming were free, rather than selfishly resist inexorable change.

Globalism threatens all careers tied to national pockets of wealth, not just tech careers. Wealth is being equalized between nations that trade with the rest of the world. Jobs will move out of the US and Europe until the cost of labor in other parts of the world reaches parity. Some folks get less, some folks get more.

The problem: we assume that the cost of labor is what is driving this. Not so. The companies involved in outsourcing their IT staffs are not being threatened in any sense of the word; as always, moving labor is just a move to make the same old business "more profitable". The issue at stake; we're taking advantage of other countries and their lower cost of labor, not assisting their markets in any way. Instead, we create economic dependencies that tie third world economies to the whims of American corporations. NoamChomsky is on to something. The stakes are different now. When the next technological leap happens, the decimation of the Third World economies (something we won't suffer) will drive people back into poverty and starvation. In this case, it's easy to blame the US, after all, bin Ladenism isn't just about religion. It's a shame we don't recognize that.

The cost of labor is driving this. If labor had the same cost around the globe jobs wouldn't be moving. Yes, this is done to make the same old business more profitable, but that describes the vast majority of tech careers. Hiring people in India isn't exploiting them in any negative way. They want to be hired. They are paid with money acquired from commerce in more wealthy nations. Paying them to develop software moves money from the US and Europe into India. Once the wealth is more evenly distributed the jobs will stop moving.

This assumes that the mentality of slashing labor costs has the ultimate goal of achieving parity between nations. Suffice to say, those workers in Indo-China that started working in textile industries are no where close to being to par with the standard of living enjoyed even by those displaced. The same situation will happen even in the Tech industry; those workers will never see an improved lifestyle over being able to simply afford food.

No, it doesn't assume that. If you sell products to US citizens and use that money to pay workers in India you will move money from the US to India. It has nothing to do with any "goals", it's a consequence of economics. The workers that take those jobs do so because they pay more than other jobs. That increases their spending power, raises their standard of living and eventually raises their expectations. If it didn't improve their lifestyle they wouldn't be taking the jobs.

It should be noted that SW engineers in India do enjoy a lifestyle far better than the average Indian; and certainly well above subsistence. The notion of "ten programmers huddled around a keyboard in Calcutta", bandied by someone up above, simply is not reality. The same thing goes for many other foreign workers for multinational corporations; while the locals won't get rich--the notion that they are one step above starving to death is flat-out ridiculous. Of course, places like India and China do have folks suffering from hunger; but generally not software engineers.

We have Silicon Valley for starving software people.

Of course, American IT workers getting killed by overseas competition from lower-cost-of-living countries could always emmigrate to those countries...

Yeah, Pakistan is a real safe place for Americans.

All the world is equally safe.

Most places are equally safe, more or less. Americans are safe (as safe as the locals, at least) in places such as India or China. There are places (such as Pakistan), where some folks feel that killing Westerners--especially Yanks--is a political statement; however there are places in the U.S. I can think of where you might be in trouble if you're not the right race/religion/sexual orientation

Mark Knopfler (former frontman of Dire Straits) recently released a new album; the first single, "Why Aye Man?" is an amusing-but-sad tale of displaced British construction workers moving to Germany for work, after Thatcher's busting of the unions back in the '80s. Who knows...it could happen here. Maybe one day there will be floods of gringoes swimming across the Rio Grande looking for jobs in Mexico. Or then again, maybe not.--ScottJohnson

Whether or not everywhere is safe for an American, many places are not particularly desirable to most Americans. Not everyone is willing to learn a new language and culture, especially English-speakers. Not everyone is willing to go where they are hated and feared as foreigners, especially white folks who've seldom had to face that possibility. And with these poor countries, especially, remember that few Americans would want to live under a dictatorship, an unstable government, a corrupt kleptocracy, or a legal system that just plain won't look out for them. ... China might be tolerable, since foreigners are respected in many places there, and afforded special protection under the law, even. The political system is relatively stable, but you'll still have to learn to live without freedom of speech, press, and assembly. And you'll have to set aside a few years to become literate in that writing system, too.

AmericanCulturalAssumption applies again. Your mileage may vary, but it may come as a surprise that some of us from the so-called developing world living in the U.S. actually experience the U.S. to be politically and socially more backward and less free than where we come from.

Actually, it would definitely come as a surprise. Some of us may hear about what it's like in Western Europe and see how we could be backward compared to them, we generally only hear bad things about the developing world. In the U.S., it's common knowledge that in the third world, you have a dictator who rules with an iron fist, the only places to work are sweatshops if you're lucky, you have to constantly pay bribes to the secret police (especially if you're white), women have to wear beekeeper suits or be stoned to death, and if you read or print an opinion that the state doesn't approve of, you get tortured. And sure, in our country we have an idiot President who stole the election, the only places to work are fast food if you're lucky, our cops like to pull over black people, women have to deal with creeps at bars, and if you read or print an opinion that the state doesn't approve of, everyone ignores and disqualifies you. Not perfect, but better. If there is a criterion by which a third world country is more free and more socially progressive than the United States, I'd love to hear it.

By all of those criteria, Cuba is a far more advanced country than the USA. Going by first-hand reports, Cuban women feel safe enough to hitchhike every day into the city, the Leader for life isn't a complete idiot and doesn't need to go around with armed bodyguards to protect him from his own population (or have his own soldiers disarm before he meets them to prevent a fragging), there is surprisingly little race discrimination, the cops don't shake you down for speeding or illegal parking, you can still get a decent job for life, and if you print an opinion that the state doesn't approve of you'll still be respected and keep your job ... unless you took the equivalent of a small fortune in cash from CIA agents, at which point you'll be tried for treason and executed. Not exactly what the propaganda says, is it?

The discussion on the cons side is really riddled with marxist prejudices. I mean really, talking about the "exploitation" of software engineers, is marxist non-sense.

Does anyone have any hard data, or even anecdotes, about how programmers in India are treated?

I work with off-shore guys, and I know they work ver long days, and at the weekends from the emails I get. It depends what you call exploitation, but they certainly don't work cozy 37.5-40hr weeks like "Western" workers.

Neither do western workers, at least not in my neck of the west.

38-hour-per-week jobs tend to only exist in lumbering corporations and government. But another issue is that globalism widens the pool of those who are willing to be "exploited". Those who want a normal life will have a harder time competing. Some suggest that the popularity of H-1B visa workers is only partly due to their price, but also due to the fact they often have no families and no life outside of work (because they don't understand or relate to the culture), and are thus de-facto wage-slaves. Few people are going to want to program their ass off late into the night forever like they did when they were 25. Even if you enjoy it, your fingers will probably give out. 

  Sweet dreams are made of this
  Who am I to disagree?
  I travel the world
  And the seven seas
  Everybody's looking for something.


  Some of them want to use you
  Some of them want to get used by you
  Some of them want to abuse you
  Some of them want to be abused.
  - Annie Lennox
There are also Indian guys over here (UK) working who are on 24hour on-call, 365 days a year. These guys still work the normal working week (whatever that may be for them.), and also do not get any paid holiday except for bank holidays. This would be against EU employment laws, but the employee themselves would have to raise the complaint, which of course they won't do as they would probably just be fired, and someone else brought in who _will_ do the job.

There are USian guys over here (US) who are on call 24/7/365, too. I was one for 8 years. I didn't get all of the bank holidays, but I did get 2 weeks vacation and 1 week sick time. That was not against any employment laws in my state.

Ironically, globalism is probably causing much more misery in the developing world than in the West. Indeed, globalism has to a large extent been all about using overwhelming economic and political muscle to open developing markets and resources to first world exploitation while keeping first-world markets effectively closed to exports from poorer countries (see e.g. protectionism against African agricultural imports in the U.S. and Europe). This often ruins local farming-based economies. Moving towards protectionism on I.T. jobs would just be a continuation of this miserable and hypocritical trend.

See also http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/ffd/2003/0722catfish.htm

http://www.cottonworld.com.au/articles.php3?rc=465 [refactor links to below?]

Sure thing. Whatever US does is bad by definition. While you may be able to find a moron or two who actualy think this way, it is a pretty laughable idea. On the other hand, anyone in the US who doesn't have there head shoved deeply in the sand will have to see that some things we (i.e. as state or federal policy, not as individuals) do are just plain evil. This counters some of the unambigously good things. Whats left is both more complicated and more interesting than the simple-minded folk arguing black and white can compass --- this holds for all 'sides' of the many issues touched on here.

Links

http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/ffd/2003/0722catfish.htm

http://www.cottonworld.com.au/articles.php3?rc=465

http://www.gonewiththeworld.com

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?isbn=0446577448

"A High-Tech Worker's Guide to Globalization's Myths"

http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/story/0,10801,105891,00.html?from=story_picks

Alleged Myths:

You know, I welcome the destruction of tech careers in the West. Let them be outsourced to India and China, let them vanish and dry up. I welcome it because then the technocrats will know what they have consigned skilled and unskilled manual workers to for the past couple decades. I welcome it because this historically recent division between technocrats and other workers will vanish into thin air. I welcome it because an entire class that acts to the detriment of humanity in order to maintain their privileges will be eliminated. Once technocrats vanish, there will be only capitalists left to eradicate. And with 90% of the population thrown into misery by the capitalists' deliberate actions, the revolution won't make itself wait any longer. The longer the technocrats are miserable, the lower they fall, the more abject their poverty, the more likely the billionaires will simply be lined against a wall and shot. -- RK

Struggle and some inequality is inevitable. I don't think belief in a Great Flush is realistic as a permanent fix of anything. It just changes the flavor of what kind of jerks are in charge. This is the experience of all prior Great Flushes.

Three points that seem to have been missed so far:

I am hoping that the offshoring fad is a side-effect of extra pressure to keep the budgets down. Getting a mediocre product at 1/3 the cost may be more appealing than a good product at "full" cost when there is strong budget pressure. But when that pressure is relieved when money starts flowing in, then they may want more local staff that is "embedded" with the customer/user to understand his/her needs. Another way of saying this is that when there is abnormal budget pressure, you please the accountants first. But when there is normal budget pressure you are more focused on pleasing the customer/user first. Offshoring is pro-accountant.

A mistake to see as a fad, for it is a redefinition of the efficiency of human resources which is gathering steam

To see offshoring as a fad is a big mistake. I have been working with offshore companies in China for several years, and can attest that there is no lack of brain power there. If anything, the teams there will become better, and become an even bigger increasing competion (or asset, depending on how you see it). I believe that the question should not be 'if' offshoring will continue, but 'where' it will continue. As India is becoming more expensive, other countries are ready to step in.

I don't think the above suggested that offshore labor was "less smart", but rather that for many domains being in physical proximity to the customer is more effective. I suspect it is a combination of fad and a trend that in some ways follows the dot-com bubble. It started out overhyped, but the internet and its influence is still growing at a measured pace. I have seen good reasons to offshore and bad reasons. Over time the bad reasons will result in some retraction, but more good uses will continued to be discovered. For example, trying to find the cause of a specific recreatable bug does not necessarily require domain knowledge. One can email to India, "Why is module X crashing on line Y?". Thus, a kind of "horizontal" offshoring seems best where customer-centric issues stay onshore but easy-to-describe technical issues get offshored. But, this may be 1/3 to 1/2 of all development work. Thus, shrinkage may be tagging us for quite a while. Even if you currently deal mostly with customer issues, the competition from others trying to also get into the customer realm is going to put pressure and oversupply on all developers. --top

The biggest mistake for American IT workers is to keep doing the same things as they did during the tech bubble, which is to concentrate solely on the technology. We are living in a global market, and it will pay us all good to learn a few different kinds of skills that help us compete in this market.

One way that I as a path for IT workers ... and response by 66.218.62.204 moved to AlternativeJobsForProgrammersDiscussion

If raw technology keeps getting pushed offshore, then are embedded and systems programmers in more trouble than say business system developers, who are generally closer to the customer? For example, if your company builds compilers, I see little financial reason to do so in the US. Compilers can be written anywhere in the world. You don't need to be close to the culture or habits of end-users (application programmers) because your "customer" is a well-defined specification, not a human being. (I suppose the IDE might be tuned for specific cultures, but that is only a small percent of the project.)

The hubbub about offshoring seems to have died down somewhat. It may follow the pattern of manufacturing: stays flat or grows a bit during good times, but gets kicked heavily in the gonads during recessions. In other words, a stair-stepped shrinkage.

Actually, the number of (not percent of) factory workers has remained flat on average since globalization kicked up in the 60's. However, wages dropped and the pressure grew to make existing positions more stressful.

Big programming shops in the US seem to be a thing of the past. I see the field moving to more generalists for smaller companies or departments, and customer-facing "architects". The Lone Nerd is a dying breed.

In the works: Programming Boat:

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/070506-seafaring-offshore-outsourcer-hopes-to.html

On a lighter note: see PrimateProgramming

See Also: InternationalOutsourcing, ISBN 0345383044 , MakeUsYourSlavesButFeedUs, LiaisonEconomy

CategoryEmployment, CategoryEconomics

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