Americans Work Too Much

Moved from WhyDoYouPermitThisToBeDoneToYou

It was ever thus: Here's how GeorgeBernardShaw (an Irishman) described the differences between his US and British colleagues at the Edison Telephone Company in London, circa 1880.

: [the Americans] worked with a ferocious energy which was out of all proportion to the actual result achieved. Indomitably resolved to assert their republican manhood by taking no orders from tall-hatted Englishmen[...]they insisted on being slave-driven with genuine American oaths by a genuine free and equal American foreman. They utterly despised the artfully slow British workman who did as little for his wages as he possibly could; never hurried himself; and had a deep reverence for anyone whose pocket could be tapped by respectful behaviour. Need I add that they were contemptuously wondered at by this same British workman as a parcel of outlandish adult boys, who sweated themselves for their employer's benefit instead of looking after their own interests?

Shaw wrote this is the preface to his novel The Irrational Knot, which is included in AlasdairGray?'s TheBookOfPrefaces? ISBN 0747544433 -- KeithBraithwaite

This probably reflects the pervasive influence of the PuritanWorkEthic on the USA...

Which is: "Work yourself to death and hang as witches those who don't."

Many Americans believe in very minimal government "interference" in the workplace. European systems are seen as "socialist" (which is seen as a synonym for communist).

IfYouWantEuropeYouKnowWhereToFindIt. --RobMandeville

Isn't "civilised" the word you're looking for? [At least we know how to spell civilized. Seriously though, we've had pretty good luck with letting the FreeMarket work on its own. Too much perhaps, because we don't seem to have gotten around to admitting that it doesn't administer itself and can fall into some nasty feed back loops that result in very unfair advantages for those who are already wealthy.]

You've got a FreeMarket!? Cool! When did that happen?

Anyway, why would it require government interference? Just don't do it!

For the addictive feeling of getting that doomed demo done in time.

If you have to work 60-80 hours a week, you should yell at your manager, because he's doing a very bad job at planning. Amen.

This is probably the result of the PeterPrinciple at work... - MalcolmCampbell

The implications of the title of this page are ridiculous-- as if employment in the USA were some sort of involuntary servitude, where evil things are "done to us", forcing us to work hard. Many people in the USA choose to work hard because they think it will help them get ahead, or for other reasons. Many people choose otherwise. In Europe, many people are denied that choice by government fiat. --RobertEikel

"Working hard" and "working obscene hours" are two very different concepts. If the term weren't already overused on wiki I might even go so far as to suggest they were "orthogonal".

Of course, that implies that you have a real choice. When was the last time someone offered you a good job in the US that included six weeks vacation time the first year?

Entrepreneur, Independent contractor, freelancer, 2 Part-time jobs (instead of full)

Never! Are you talking about "paid" vacations? If so in non-America, keep it up, you will give American Business a much needed helping hand in international competition. 6/52 of non-productivity vs 2/52 is good! That gives America an almost 9 percent edge! No governmental subsidies required. (Do you suppose that is why Americans have to pay a smaller portion of their GDP in taxes?) see http://www.zurichnetwork.ch/content/02_lo/download/st_StCh_en.pdf

As far as I can tell, Europe has a much stronger tradition of class consciousness than the United States. In Europe, the trade-union movement led to openly pro-labor political parties that were either openly socialist or had strong socialist factions. On the other hand, in the US, since the 1930s, unions have acknowledged the general right of employers to manage their business, and both the Republicans and the Democrats try to present themselves as defending "the middle class", whatever that means. Furthermore, since most Americans hope to become rich some day, laws that soak the rich are harder to sell to voters in the US than in Europe. --SethGordon

Before everybody gets carried away here, let me point out that the 60 and 70 hour weeks people are referring to are for software development/IT jobs. The average work week in the States is something like 41 or 42 hours, which although a lot higher than most of Europe, is still a lot less that 60 or 70. A lot of Americans only work 9 to 5, as anyone who has tried to drive from Redmond, Washington to Seattle (for example) at 5:30pm can attest to. -- CurtisBartley

Of course, this excludes the working poor who must work at a second or third job to make ends meet. And given that the USA has the largest share of working poor in the industrialized world .... One has to distinguish between average hours worked per job and average hours worked per person. 41 or 42 hours would be per job (if that).

Don't forget that WorkingPoor? also tend to have part-time second (or first) jobs. Part-time is officially anything less than 30 hours per week. There is also any amount of bummage and begging going on in my local big American city.

Our biggest social injustice is the fact that there are more workers than employers. It is, therefore, easier to play workers off one another than it is to play employers off each other. I suspect that if people in America were more willing to start new businesses, then working conditions for the average person would improve, even if it meant that running a business became harder. Funny thought! Are we impoverished unfairly by rich people who want nothing more than to keep poeple from starting small businesses?

Don't forget that WorkingPoor? also tend to have children, families, debt, cars and an inability to save their money even when they have some. People who wait until they are at a stable point in life before having children, famlies, getting in debt or buying a car or house tend to live quite nicely even on minimum wage (which is almost at $7 and almost doubled in the last six years!). Also, WorkingPoor? tend to only continue to be WorkingPoor? if they have a poor work ethic that prevents them from moving onward from a minimum wage (which is essentially a starter wage, not something you maintain and live on for eternity).

Ah, it's all their own fault. I see.

[No, it's not all their fault. This is not a black-and-white argument; it's merely pointing out mitigating factors.]

I think that the subject of this page is working too much, not the necessity to work and the working poor. In this modern age, the distinction between rich and poor is shaded by the economic and geographic necessities. A healthy social and economic system will foster a higher standard of living and the tendency to desire more than the basic necessities as a minimum. How hard and how long one works is driven by the wants, not the needs of the individual and family.

Don't forget that somebody considered a "poor person" in Washington, D.C. would be very well-off compared to a "poor person" in Kenya.

Define "living quite nicely on minimum wage." $7/hour * 2000 hours/year = $14000. An apartment at $500/month (find one!) = $6000/year. Metro at $3 each way = $3/trip * 2trips/day * 250days/year = $1500. Health Insurance at $250/month = $3000/year. This leaves $3500/year for food or about $9.59/day. This does not include any taxes, dental appointments, clothing allowance, telephone and utilities, any social activities. If one also realizes that minimum wage jobs usually do not provide 40/workweek, the picture becomes much dimmer.

Query: Do Americans not have Bus Passes? I'm Canadian and get unlimited trips in a month for $45 which is considerably cheaper than if I was paying $1.75 each trip. Yes, bus passes do exist in the UnitedStates, and usually at a reasonable discount off of full-price fare. OTOH, in many parts of the country the minimum wage is less than $7/hour. One can find lodging at less than $500/month--especially if one finds a roommate. OTOH, you're not going to get much in the way of health insurance for $250/month--most persons at this income level either qualify for Medicaid or other government assistance, or use the GeorgeBush health plan: "don't get sick". Or else receive all medical services at the emergency room, where they must be treated regardless of ability to pay. One can eat reasonably well on <$10 day, provided one never goes out to eat. Living at minimum wage can be done--especially if you have no dependents--but it isn't particularly comfortable. But you won't starve.

Living at minimum wage with a few children to raise; that is another matter.

Last time I looked in Word's thesaurus, socialism is a synonym for collectivism, communalism, Communism, Marxism, Leninism and Maoism. In our hallowed republic where capitalism rules, an antonym for socialism, we have three sectors, the governmental, military and the private sector.

If you work for the government sector you will get holidays work straight or reduced hours and receive your retirement benefits on time or early. You're usually guaranteed to have a job. Unless you're elected; that has other benefits. They may even call you a civilian or teacher or something; don't you dare go around thinking you're part of the private sector or something. That would suck. Those guys are nasty to you at your local Huge-Mart store.

If you survive working for the military sector you will stand a good chance of getting benefits. You may have some bad long years. Hey, war is hell right? But, retirement comes early. You've earned it. Hopefully you don't get hurt. The government might even give you some cozy civilian job. Don't go around thinking you're part of the private sector or something. That would suck. Those guys used to fill my car with gas; where are they now.

If you're in the private sector, you get taxed, in every way imaginable, if you're lucky enough to work. That's not to say that if you don't work you won't be taxed, just not as much. Some guys find a way to screw over everybody else and make a few bucks. Some guys get lucky. That's the only thing you can hope for. Unless you're a lawyer then you get paid for helping someone screw someone else, at least half the time, like Martha Stewart or that lady who tried to prosecute OJ.

But, what happens when no one is left to tax? Will the state provide a place and food for us private sector guys? How about some medical care or retirement benefits, if you're lucky you'll get a hand out. Sounds like socialism to me. Or, maybe, I don't understand the wartime economy or something.

America is settled mostly by immigrants who heard that hard work was rewarded in America and who felt they could work hard enough to get rewards. Thus, it is occupied by people who still have that belief.

The average work week in the States is something like 41 or 42 hours, which although a lot higher than most of Europe, is still a lot less that 60 or 70.

The average work week is about 35 hours (in 2005) in the US and has been for about the last decade. That compares to about 30 in France, and 46 in Korea.